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Re: [helm-dev] Replace TView with Wrap?

Author edk
Full name Ed Korthof
Date 2000-06-30 16:28:01 PDT
Message On Fri, 30 Jun 2000, Manoj Kasichainula wrote:

> I'd like to propose that the TView servlet from Helm get replaced
> eventually with the Wrap servlet from Joist.
>
> Advantages:
> - Wrap will eventually pass-through all headers. So caching of content
> and other features will be given to us for free, because we let
> Apache handle those details
> - Content can be done using any system (SSI, PHP, whatever), and still
> wrapped.
> - Standardize on one way to do wrapping of content instead of two
>
> Disadvantages:
> - Somewhat slower for wrapped static content, because of hitting
> Apache twice. I don't think this will be a significant difference,
> since we're doing so much dynamic content generation anyway.
>
> Thoughts?

Are you saying that with a reguest for a piece of dynamic content (ie. the
output from a servlet), an additional http request will be required? Or
just that an additional http request will be required for static content &
other content which isn't delivered through joist?

I don't think you can discount the disadvantage so lightly: if we reach a
point where we're serving a significant amount of traffic, this nearly
doubles the cost of delivering static content (in terms of the processing
required).

I can see the advantages, and I know I sometimes go overboard on
efficiency issues -- but this strikes me as a bad idea. It seems like the
design principle behind this is: save engineering time regardless of
performance. That doesn't necessarily make for good engineering -- and
more importantly, it ignores the fact that if there is a sufficient
performance effect, additional machines will be required -- that means
additional people are needed to manage the servers, which is an ongoing
cost.

Before we head down this route, I'd like to do benchmarks quantifying the
effects -- both for static and for dynamic content. I suspect we could
look at the logs on tigris.org to get an idea what sort of effect this
would have on our hardware requirements. Actual tests are (IMO) the only
way to determine whether or not a bad algorithm actually has a significant
effect. Often it doesn't ...

Ed
--
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   | Ed Korthof | edk at collab dot net | 415-247-1690 |
   +=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=​+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=​+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=

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Replace TView with Wrap? Manoj Kasichainula <manoj at collab dot net> Manoj Kasichainula <manoj at collab dot net> 2000-06-30 15:19:29 PDT
     Re: [joist-dev] Replace TView with Wrap? Jon Stevens <jon at latchkey dot com> Jon Stevens <jon at latchkey dot com> 2000-06-30 15:38:51 PDT
     Re: [helm-dev] Replace TView with Wrap? edk Ed Korthof 2000-06-30 16:28:01 PDT
         Re: [helm-dev] Replace TView with Wrap? Manoj Kasichainula <manoj at collab dot net> Manoj Kasichainula <manoj at collab dot net> 2000-06-30 17:29:44 PDT
             Re: [helm-dev] Replace TView with Wrap? edk Ed Korthof 2000-07-01 17:59:50 PDT
     Re: [joist-dev] Replace TView with Wrap? "Daniel L dot Rall" <dlr at collab dot net> "Daniel L dot Rall" <dlr at collab dot net> 2000-06-30 16:46:01 PDT
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